Make Room For The Stuttering

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I chatted recently with another person who stutters about the best way to listen to a stutterer. We were responding to a question posed by a SLP graduate student posed on an on-line stuttering forum.

The student doesn’t stutter, and wondered what people who do stutter prefer for listeners to do or say.

Most people indicated that people should listen to a person who stutters the same way you would listen to anyone else – with patience, presence and respect.

I chimed in that sometimes a person looks uncomfortable or averts their eyes or nervously giggles or laughs. Then I might disclose or advertise that I stutter to let the other person know what to expect. When I do that, sometimes the listener understands more fully that it is stuttering they hear and they don’t have to react differently than normal.

This brought up the difference between sympathy and empathy. The person I was talking with felt that when we advertise stuttering, that alone may lead the person to treat us differently, maybe even inadvertently with pity. He felt that advertising brings attention to our stuttering and therefore away from normalcy.

He felt that we should not say anything about it, and expect the listener to just listen as they would with anyone else.  Most listeners will default to empathy and listen respectfully.

I am not so sure about this. I think that if someone does not know you and does not know what stuttering is, the default reaction might be laughter, surprise or impatience. It seems best in some situations to disclose, so that both stutterer and listener can be at ease.

There is obviously a real difference between sympathy and empathy as it applies to listening to someone who stutters.

What do you think?

You all know that I write about my experiences involving stuttering. I have wondered what will happen when the day comes when I don’t have anything more to say. Well, I am not wondering today.

Last week, I presented a training to a professional audience on public speaking and communication. The group consisted of speech therapists, occupational therapists and training coordinators who are all terrified of public speaking.

As an ice breaker, I asked everyone to introduce themselves and use one word or phrase to describe what public speaking means. Like expected, most of the responses were negative. We heard words like nervous, anxious, stressful, shaking, sweating, fear, and embarrassment. The last person said she didn’t want to stutter when speaking.

I felt my face flush when she said that. I had not yet disclosed my stuttering. She provided my cue. I reintroduced myself and said my word for public speaking was opportunity. I then added, “oh, by the way, I stutter, and I am OK with it. I hope you all are too.”

No one said anything, but I did notice a few glances toward the woman who had mentioned stuttering. I did not say this to embarrass her. It just seemed like the perfect time to disclose and advertise.

As soon as I did, I put it out of my mind and proceeded. Towards the end of the training, someone asked me why I had used the word opportunity.

I was the only person who had chosen a positive word to describe public speaking. I replied that it allows me to grow and push outside of my comfort zone, and that I don’t let stuttering hold me back.

This past week, I facilitated the second of two adult education graduations in one week. I had coordinated both events, arranged for speakers, and was the emcee at the first one. One of our district superintendents spoke at both affairs. He spoke on the same theme, changing the second speech up just slightly from the one he gave earlier.

After the ceremony, and before we proceeded to join the graduates for a reception, the administrators were chatting and I happened to be close by.

I overheard one assistant superintendent say to the one who had spoke, “hey, you did a nice job. You didn’t stutter as much as last week.” And she laughed. I glanced at them both – she was laughing, he was not.

I felt uncomfortable. It seemed like an insensitive remark to make, given that I had stuttered openly when I had emceed last week.

Maybe I am overly sensitive. What do you think? Would you have said anything?

About a month ago, I attended a meeting of a new stuttering support group. A SLP friend, who also stutters, wanted some of the people he has been working with to see the power of support.

Steve asked me to come to the first meeting, to meet some people and to share. I felt a little awkward going, as I most likely won’t be able to attend again, as the schedule doesn’t work for me.

I shared parts of my story with the group and answered some questions.

At one point in the conversation, Steve asked me how I had reached the point where I am comfortable advertising and stuttering freely at work.

In my answer, I mentioned that sometimes it bothers me when people tell me, “Oh, you are such an inspiration.”  I feel embarrassed by that, and even a bit annoyed. Sometimes, I don’t want to be singled out like that and told that I am inspiring.

To me, I am doing exactly what everyone else is doing – talking. I don’t want a big deal made out of what everyone does everyday.

I was quite surprised when one woman, Francis, who had previously said very little, said, “Excuse me, but what if you are? Who are you to determine that? To people who stutter, you are an inspiration. You can’t control how people think of you.”

That was a moment! She was looking a little teary eyed as she said it. I didn’t know what to say, so I just said thank you. And she smiled and said, “I wish I could be as confident as you.”

There was another SLP in the group and she commented that she also agreed with Francis. She too said she thought I was inspiring for people who stutter.

I have thought about that exchange for a couple of weeks. It reminds me of a similar comment another friend shared with me some time ago. Lisa mentioned that she hates it when anyone calls her inspiring for just doing what she has to do and living life.

Interesting food for thought. What do you think? Has anyone ever referred to you as inspirational when you don’t feel you are?

Episode 84 features Miranda Smith, who hails from Florence, Kentucky. Miranda is a full-time college student at Northern Kentucky University, studying computer information technology, with a minor in computer forensics. She also works as a waitress.

Miranda is actively involved in the National Stuttering Association, serving as a board member on the Teen Advisory Council.

Listen in as we talk about how she got involved in the stuttering community, her feelings about stuttering, confidence and self-consciousness, and how she balances a very full plate. Well, waitresses are exceptionally good at that, right?

Miranda also talks about fund raising she has done for the National Stuttering Association and advertising she has done about stuttering. She shares how the “Stutter Like A Rock Star” bracelets were a big hit.

Even though I am the original “stutterrockstar” (@StutterRockStar on twitter and the url for this blog) it’s cool that Miranda took “stutterlikearockstar”as her email address. We are both making room for our stuttering and there is certainly enough room!

Please be sure to listen in and leave comments or questions for Miranda. Or just let her know what a great job she did.

The music clip used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

A reader sent me this note recently. It made my day, so thought I would share it here with you!

Hi Pam,

We’ve never met before but we have something very much in common and that is we both stutter. This past year I’ve started on a new journey with my stutter as a friend instead of a monster. It feels so good.  I’ve found your blog and podcast on the web and find it very intriguing. I was curious how you got started with that? What motivated you? It gives other PWS a chance to relate to how others cope and manage their stutter.

What I like is that you can listen to people who stutter carry on a conversation despite the stutter. That’s what gave me courage to keep moving forward. It gives us courage and hope. Keep it up.

Now I’m hoping to go to the NSA conference in Florida this year.

Thanks, Cindy

I wrote back to her and shared a little bit about how I got started with this blog and she wrote a little bit more about herself.She has never had much contact with others who stutter.

I am hoping she will indeed go to the NSA conference and make some strong and lasting connections.

Episode 83 features Nina G, the only female stuttering stand-up comic. Nina hails from Oakland, California. She has been doing stand up comedy for two years now, and making a real name for herself.

Nina believes comedy is artistic expression that is also a social change vehicle. Nina is a huge disability advocate, and hopes that people are thinking differently about stuttering due in part to her comedy and advocacy.

Nina recently auditioned for the television show America’s Got Talent. We talk about the how and why, and what motivated Nina to audition.

Nina shares in this conversation, as she has in previous episodes, that the only person she ever knew who stuttered publicly in the media was Stuttering John of the Howard Stern show. When Nina found out that Stern was a judge on the America’s Got Talent TV show, Nina decided that she wanted to try and interact with Howard Stern.

We also talk about the continued absence of role models who actually stutter in the media or high profile leadership positions.

Change is needed. Listen in as these two women who stutter share our feisty opinions on why women who stutter are needed as positive, visible role models.

You can also check out this video of Nina talking about the Howard Stern show and challenging the internal stigma of stuttering.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter. Feel free to leave comments or ask questions. Remember, feedback is a gift.

This was very interesting to me. In a very succinct way, this quick comment by a friend sums up the covert stuttering experience for some people.

A friend asked how my new job was going. I started a new position in mid November, something that is quite different for me and out of my area of expertise. Part of my responsibilities include providing resources and support to 15 adult education teachers.

In an email, my friend commented, “Wow Pam, you are amazing. You have to manage 15 staff and they let you stutter the way that you do. That is very inspirational.”

To me, this spoke volumes about how we hide our true selves, and how we feel about exposing our differences at work and in professional environments.

What do you think?

Episode 81 features Vivian Sisskin, who is a SLP and Board Recognized Specialist in Fluency Disorders. Vivian is on the clinical faculty at the University of Maryland. She has specialized in stuttering for over 30 years, and has “loved every minute of it.”

Vivian is also active with the National Stuttering Association, and is a moderator of the popular discussion group Stutt-l.

I have heard Vivian speak at a number of stuttering conferences over the last several years, and got the chance to really talk with her quite a bit at last year’s FRIENDS conference in Washington, DC. Vivian has also been very supportive and encouraging of this podcast that gives voice to the stories of women who stutter.

When I first heard Vivian present a session about her avoidance reduction therapy, I found I couldn’t get enough of it. Learning how to avoid avoidance behavior resonates strongly with covert stutterers, which I “thought I was” for many years.

I am privileged and honored to have Vivian as a guest, to share what avoidance reduction therapy is, why it is so powerful, and how she specifically approaches the work in therapy.

One of the themes Vivian shares in this powerful episode is change – the act of doing leads the way to change. Be sure to check in, and feel free to leave feedback.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

A friend and I were at a tavern over the weekend. We were meeting in person for the first time, so I chose a place that I have been to before and is close to where he is living temporarily.

We had originally planned to meet at a coffee shop, but we changed up because it was so COLD the day we met and it was easier for my friend to just cross the street.

A tavern meant we could grab a beer together instead of just coffee.

When our waitress came over to take our orders, I stuttered on what I wanted, and she filled in the word for me. No biggie.

My friend blocked and stuttered, and she proceeded to finish the word for him as well. When they were done speaking, I piped up, “Hey,just want you to know, we both stutter, so you may hear a bit of that while we are here today.”

She responded back quickly, “Oh, so what would you prefer? Should I finish the words for you or would you rather I just patiently listen?”

I said I prefer that she be patient and allow me to say my own words, and then I said, “but I can’t speak for my friend. (Looking at him, I asked him) what do you prefer?”

He said, “the same thing, please patiently listen for me to finish my own words.”

I was so impressed with this little 45 second exchange. This waitress showed a respect, tolerance and understanding for difference that we often don’t see.

By bringing it out in the open the way I did (I hope I didn’t embarrass my friend!) we clearly advertised and educated.

And to me anyway, we got the by-product of a greater sense of permission to stutter away. Both of us seemed to stutter more freely for the remainder of our visit there. (Or maybe it was the alcohol. I’m not telling!)

What do you think?

Episode 79 features Jacquelyn Revere, 25, who hails from Los Angeles, CA. She is presently in NYC attending the The New School for Drama, and is in her last semester. She is getting her Master’s degree in Acting.

Jacquelyn has loved drama and acting from a young age. She stopped acting in high school though, thinking it wasn’t realistic. She switched her interest to entertainment law, where she interned with Johnnie Cochran (yes, O.J. Simpson’s lawyer!)

Her internship taught her that she did not want to be a lawyer! She changed her major to theater in her junior year of college, giving in to her heart’s passion.

Jacquelyn and I met one night through the Stutter Social Google hangout, then became Facebook friends, which led to this chat!

Jacquelyn discusses her speech therapy experiences – school based, which was not helpful and her experience with intensive therapy at the Hollins Institute.

Jacquelyn now works with a private therapist, Lee Caggiano, who is also the Director and co-founder of FRIENDS. Jacquelyn works on the mental aspects of stuttering, particularly shame.

I had no idea that Jacquelyn works with Lee, as I have been involved with FRIENDS and edit their newsletter, since 2008. What a small world! Jacquelyn found Lee through Taro Alexander, of  Our Time, of which I am also familiar!

Jacquelyn discusses challenges and opportunities, advertising, stress, stuttering while acting and pity parties!

This was a great conversation with a confident, courageous young woman whom we will see on stage one day. Feel free to comment or ask questions. Feedback is a gift.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

I had an interesting chat with my sister over dinner this past weekend. We are both on Facebook and she has been communicating with a couple of people I know through a stuttering forum.

Don’t ask how it started, but she has become friends with several people and was “added” to a forum by a member.

Some people might have a problem with a non-stutterer being a member of such a group. Personally, I think it’s a great idea that anyone interested in learning more about stuttering  be “allowed” to engage and participate in group discussions.

My sister mentioned that she has chatted quite a bit with one person, including chatting over the phone a few times. This woman who stutters has mentioned to my sister that the group has been a great source of support for her.

Many of the group members have talked her through various confidence issues and encouraged her to take chances with speaking that she previously never would.

My sister mentioned that when they have talked over the phone, this woman sounds great and that her stutter is very mild, saying, “it’s like yours, Pam.”

My sister also went on to say that she doesn’t really understand why then this person would seem so overly concerned about talking and taking chances publicly.

I reminded my sister that there is a huge amount of shame involved in stuttering and that’s why these stuttering forums are so popular and successful with people who stutter. If you look at some of the forums, it is not uncommon to see 50 or 60 responses to questions or posts by members.

Why? Because it is infinitely easier to express ourselves in writing, behind the relative safety of a computer screen, than it is to have real-time conversations over the phone, Skype or in-person. My sister said “no, that can’t be true. Look how much back and forth there is. Look how much this woman has been helped.”

I said, “yes, but it is all through writing. It is much safer to express our self in writing. We don’t stutter then. It becomes the safety net for the huge amount of shame that a lot of people who stutter still deal with.”

My sister just looked at me and said, “I never thought of that. That makes sense. Wow, you’re probably right.”

What do you think? Do you think online stuttering groups or forums become a safety net for some people, a way to not have to talk?

For the past several months, I have been communicating with a young man who stutters from Mumbai, India. His name is Devayan, and we started emailing each other in September.

Devayan learned about me after getting actively involved in the internet stuttering community. He started listening to StutterTalk and my own podcasts here and reading this blog.

Devayan connected with me by email in the fall, after realizing that I live in upstate New York, close to a college he was interested in attending. Devayan was hoping to come to the United States to pursue graduate studies in speech language pathology.

He asked my opinion on the graduate essays he was submitting to two colleges. He wanted my honest feedback. He got that, maybe even more than he bargained for!

Devayan didn’t mention in his first draft essay to The College of St Rose that he stuttered. I thought he should, as that would set him apart from other candidates. That and the fact that he is also a HE. Male SLP students are fairly rare.

So I suggested that Devayan rewrite his entire essay! He did, and soon after sending it in, he emailed me to let me know he had passed the first phase of admission. He would now be invited for a face-to-face interview.

We discussed that, and I suggested he ask if he could interview via Skype. It took a while for the college to confirm that a Skype interview would work. So in the interim, Devayan asked if we could chat via Skype. He wanted to pick my brain!

We coordinated the time zone difference and finally “met” over Skype, where we had a great conversation about what to anticipate in the graduate admission interview. Since that time, we have chatted via Skype a few times.

Soon after Devayan had his graduate student interview, he emailed me to let me know he was accepted. Then, in the course of just weeks, he satisfied his student visa interview and purchased his plane tickets to fly from Mumbai, India to Albany, New York, USA.

Devayan is scheduled to arrive here sometime in the first week of January 2012. We plan to meet in person soon after that, which to me is amazing and so meaningful.

It is amazing to think that one person can impact another in such a huge way that one is willing to make such a leap of faith and move half way across the world. It shows the power of connection, and what happens when we share our personal experiences honestly with another.

I don’t think either of us thought in September that we would be really planning to meet in person in January. But we are!

And the flurry of emails continues. I have given Devayan some ideas of what clothing to pack and buy for the cold Northeastern part of the USA, which is quite different from India. And he has asked me about joining Toastmasters here, as he joined a club recently in Mumbai, and wants to stay involved with that once here.

I am excited to introduce him to some of my friends here in New York, and get him involved in our monthly Chat & Chew social gathering of people who stutter.

This will be a huge change for my young friend from India. One that will change his life. And one that will likely change many lives when he eventually returns to India, armed with new tools and resources to help other people who stutter.

People who stutter can help other people who stutter, one person at a time, just by opening up, talking, sharing and connecting.

I look forward to adding more details to this story as it continues to unfold, and adding a picture of the two of us when we finally meet in person.

Episode 75 features Kelsey, who hails from Biggar, Saskatchewan, Canada. Kelsey is 22 years old and currently attends Trinity Western University in Langley, British Columbia. Kelsey plans to graduate in April 2012 with an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies, with a minor in Psychology.

Kelsey has always been fascinated with learning about people and understanding differences and similarities. She has just returned from a unique experience studying abroad for a full semester in the Middle East. She spent the majority of her time in Israel and Palestine, as well as two weeks in Turkey and Jordan.

We have a great discussion of life in the Middle East, how Western women are received, and how Turkey is the only secular Muslim state. I ask questions about the food, cultures and how visitors should dress.

We talk about advertising stuttering with different groups. Kelsey touched on how insecurities re-surfaced, especially while she was taking an Arabic language class. We talked about how women often feel inferior because of stuttering and often feel we need to compensate or prove our worth.

Kelsey has deep faith, and talks about how her faith has helped her accept her stuttering. Kelsey shares how she has always felt inspired by Moses, who is thought to have stuttered.

We also talk about Kelsey’s other interests. She is actively involved with wheelchair basketball, and talks about how enriching it is to be fully accepted as an able-bodied player in the wheelchair basketball culture. She has been involved in competitive league play for over a year.

Kelsey loves being welcomed into communities that she is not naturally part of. This was an incredibly fascinating conversation, that illustrates how you can ask personal questions about others after sharing experiences.

Be sure to listen in, and feel free to leave comments or questions for either of us. Remember feedback is a gift! Music used in this episode credited to ccMixter.

This is my friend Lisa giving a talk at a local TEDx conference in Albany, NY last month. I had the privilege of being there in person to see and hear her talk, and more importantly, the audience reaction. They loved her. She was the best presenter by far, of 16 speakers.

TED talks are global. If you have never heard of them, check them out. It’s a simple, yet profound idea. Get people who have something to say to say it. Like Lisa does here.

I met Lisa a little more than a year ago, after “stalking” her (her words!) and convincing her to meet me. We found out through email and social media that we live and work very close to each other.

Lisa has a severe stutter, and works in an industry where she helps other people find their voice. As we began to get to know each other, Lisa shared that she has never talked publicly like this. Until this year. Like NOW!

She spoke at a major industry conference in LA about a week before she did this talk. I think it’s safe to say Lisa has found her voice.

I am glad I stalked her and we have become friends. She inspires me. She has also been a guest on my podcast!

Last night, after our Toastmaster’s meeting, some of us went to dinner to celebrate the holidays as a group. It is always nice when we can get together to socialize outside of the regular meeting. It allows people to get to know each other in a more casual, relaxed setting.

After dinner, our small group chatted and laughed about a number of things. As it got late and people began to leave, just three of us women were left and we were still chatting and enjoying ourselves.

At one point, I got stuck on a word and JC finished it for me, then immediately touched my hand and apologized. She said, “I’m sorry. I know better than that. It’s just that I am amazed each time I hear you get stuck. I say to my self, ‘ah, that’s right, she stutters!'”

For some reason, that struck me as something I wanted to ask her about. I said, “Why does that amaze you?”

JC said, “Oh, I just forget you stutter. And then when you do get stuck, it always amazes me. I guess with my ADD, I just have to remind myself, oh yeah, she stutters.”

She further went on to say, “every time I hear you get stuck, my brain sends me this reminder, oh yeah, she stutters, oh yeah, she stutters, that’s why I should have known better than to finish your word for you.”

The other woman sitting with us was just looking at us in amazement and taking in every word. I said something like, “you look stunned!”

She said, “No, not at all. It’s just amazing to hear the two of you so comfortably talking about stuttering and ADD, like it’s no big deal.”

It’s not, right? When we put ourselves out there, it’s no big deal. People then know how to respond to us, if we show our own comfort level with whatever it is that makes us unique.


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