Make Room For The Stuttering

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This was very interesting to me. In a very succinct way, this quick comment by a friend sums up the covert stuttering experience for some people.

A friend asked how my new job was going. I started a new position in mid November, something that is quite different for me and out of my area of expertise. Part of my responsibilities include providing resources and support to 15 adult education teachers.

In an email, my friend commented, “Wow Pam, you are amazing. You have to manage 15 staff and they let you stutter the way that you do. That is very inspirational.”

To me, this spoke volumes about how we hide our true selves, and how we feel about exposing our differences at work and in professional environments.

What do you think?

Episode 5 of this series of conversations with men who stutter features John Paskievich, who hails from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. John is an award winning stills photographer and documentary film maker

When trying to find his life’s work, John picked up a camera and realized he enjoyed working with still images. He went on to pursue a free lance career as a photographer and documentary film maker, despite being told early on that he shouldn’t, due to his stuttering.

Listen in as we talk about how that made John feel, as well as his insecurities about stuttering and his self-denial that his stuttering wasn’t bothering him. It was! We also delve into talk of acceptance, that stuttering is “not our fault” and that fluent people should “get over” their own anxieties about what to do when one encounters someone who stutters.

We also chat about the film John made about stuttering, that he titled “Unspeakable.” He chose it for the double meaning that it connotes – that if you stutter, you sometimes feel you can’t speak, as well as the taboo associated with stuttering. And we talk of the tendency that stutterers have of trying to please our listener.

This was a great conversation, filled with lots of laughter and humor. I enjoyed this very candid conversation with a guy who has come a long way on his stuttering journey.

Please leave comments for John or myself in the comment section. Feedback is a gift.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

Episode 81 features Vivian Sisskin, who is a SLP and Board Recognized Specialist in Fluency Disorders. Vivian is on the clinical faculty at the University of Maryland. She has specialized in stuttering for over 30 years, and has “loved every minute of it.”

Vivian is also active with the National Stuttering Association, and is a moderator of the popular discussion group Stutt-l.

I have heard Vivian speak at a number of stuttering conferences over the last several years, and got the chance to really talk with her quite a bit at last year’s FRIENDS conference in Washington, DC. Vivian has also been very supportive and encouraging of this podcast that gives voice to the stories of women who stutter.

When I first heard Vivian present a session about her avoidance reduction therapy, I found I couldn’t get enough of it. Learning how to avoid avoidance behavior resonates strongly with covert stutterers, which I “thought I was” for many years.

I am privileged and honored to have Vivian as a guest, to share what avoidance reduction therapy is, why it is so powerful, and how she specifically approaches the work in therapy.

One of the themes Vivian shares in this powerful episode is change – the act of doing leads the way to change. Be sure to check in, and feel free to leave feedback.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

I saw this question posted on Yahoo Answers by a young girl who was looking for alternatives she could try to help with her stuttering.

I am a 15 year old girl who stutters. Lately, I have been letting it get the best of me. Last year, I didn’t care who thought I was weird if I stuttered and if someone did, than they are an idiot. But now that I am in high school, I have been figuring out that people don’t want to be friends with someone who is different…if you understand what I mean. The sad thing is though, I understand them and frankly agree (in my 3rd person world). I took speech therapy for 13 years and it has had no effect. I was wondering if there is anything different than the speech easy and therapy? (Both haven’t worked in the slightest.) I have lost most of my friends because I am afraid to talk to them now… Katie

A couple of people recommended this young girl try practicing reading out loud, singing, or Reiki.

I posted a response to her on the Yahoo site. Rather than just reprint what I posted, (which is not one of the above ideas) I wondered what some of you might suggest to her!

Please leave comments or give some ideas for this 15-year old. What have you learned about making room for your stuttering that might help Katie?

I will try to post some of these to her original question on Yahoo in the hopes that she will see them, or link over here so she can see your comments!

Episode 80 features return guest Elaine Robin, who hails from Seattle, Washington. For this great episode, Elaine shares from her present location, which is Shanghai, China. Elaine is a SLP who stutters and first shared her story here in episode 43.

I was excited to have Elaine back on the show, to tell us about her experiences living in China. An opportunity became available for Elaine to work in Shanghai for a year at a speech clinic. Elaine shares with us the excitement and culture shock of moving to, and living in, a very different part of the world.

We talk about stuttering, of course, but also about the fascinating perspective of an American who does not speak Chinese trying to navigate in a new country. We talk about the Chinese educational system, how disabilities are viewed and handled and the stark differences between Eastern and Western cultures.

Elaine also had the opportunity to travel to India at the end of December 2011. She had planned a visit to India while in Asia anyway, and had the unique opportunity to visit and attend the first ever Indian National Conference for people who stutter. The conference was organized and hosted by The Indian Stammering Association.

Listen in as Elaine describes the profound moments she experienced as a small group came together to celebrate, learn and support each other about stuttering. We discuss advertising, acceptance, self-help and pushing out of comfort zones.

Elaine also shares the very personal insights she learned about facing fears, taking chances and what she has learned about herself.

Please leave feedback here in the comment section. We would love to hear from you.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

(Also, note there may be a couple of editing errors in the audio. Sue me – I do the best I can!)

I read a piece on laughter on another blog (Brian Scott Herr) and was really able to resonate with what he wrote. He talks about being laughed at by a customer service person when he was purchasing tickets and stutters.

All of us who stutter have had this happen, as kids and teens, and into adulthood. I know – it has happened to me more as an adult than as a kid!

Why? Because I am more open with my stuttering now as an adult. When we stutter openly, we can feel vulnerable and exposed.  We feel particularly vulnerable when we encounter someone unfamiliar with stuttering and their first reaction is to laugh at us.

It hurts when that happens! I used to get really upset and feel my eyes fill up with tears, and struggle to compose myself until I was done with whatever I was doing and then I would practically run out to my car. And cry! Tears of embarrassment and anger!

Anger at having been laughed at for something I can’t help. But also anger at my own inability to say anything. My shame would paralyze me to the point that I just froze and couldn’t say anything.

It still happens! I get laughed at or mocked occasionally. It hurts! Sometimes my eyes fill up right away, because it stings. And then I get mad at myself for letting those tears well up.

But one thing has changed. Now I am confident and comfortable most of the time (notice I say “most”) to say something when someone laughs or mocks my stuttering. I usually say something like, “just so you know, I stutter. I am OK with that, but I am not OK with someone laughing or making fun of me. It hurts my feelings.”

People are usually surprised when I say that. Some get embarrassed and apologize profusely. Some turn red and don’t say anything. Some say, “oh, you do not.” Or, “I stutter sometimes too.”

I do not address someone who laughs at me because I want them to feel bad or embarrassed. I do it for ME! That’s right, ME!

I don’t deserve to be laughed at or mocked just because I stutter or sometimes have a long pause when a word gets stuck. No one does.

Not everyone is in the place on their journey where they feel comfortable addressing someone who laughs at stuttering. It takes courage. It involves taking a risk. Not only have we stuttered, but then we are going to call more attention to it.

Laughing is good for the soul. We all need to laugh – at things that are funny, not hurtful.

And we need to laugh at ourselves once in a while too, meaning not take our self too seriously. I still have to work on that. I have to work every day at believing that I deserve to be treated and listened to with respect. That starts within.

We should always be laughing with someone, not at someone’s expense.

What are your thoughts?

Episode 4 of this occasional series with men who stutter features my good friend Joseph Diaz, who hails from Dallas, Texas. Joseph and I met at my first NSA conference in 2006, which was in Long Beach, CA. We have been fast friends since.

Joseph is a long time member of the National Stuttering Association (NSA). He has held many leadership positions with the NSA, including being a long time board member.

Joesph started stuttering rather late. His stuttering didn’t make an appearance until he was a junior in high school.

Joseph shares his long journey with stuttering. He talks about the times when stuttering consumed his life, avoidance behaviors and negative self-talk. He also talks about his “rock bottom” and how he turned the corner.

Joseph honestly shares about what it was like socializing, making friends and dating. We also talk about acceptance, and how that conscious decision to accept himself as a person who stutters shaped his life.

Joseph also shares his career path, and his very active involvement with Toastmasters.

We hope you listen in! Feel free to leave comments or questions for Joseph, or just thank him for sharing and doing such a good job!

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

A friend and I were at a tavern over the weekend. We were meeting in person for the first time, so I chose a place that I have been to before and is close to where he is living temporarily.

We had originally planned to meet at a coffee shop, but we changed up because it was so COLD the day we met and it was easier for my friend to just cross the street.

A tavern meant we could grab a beer together instead of just coffee.

When our waitress came over to take our orders, I stuttered on what I wanted, and she filled in the word for me. No biggie.

My friend blocked and stuttered, and she proceeded to finish the word for him as well. When they were done speaking, I piped up, “Hey,just want you to know, we both stutter, so you may hear a bit of that while we are here today.”

She responded back quickly, “Oh, so what would you prefer? Should I finish the words for you or would you rather I just patiently listen?”

I said I prefer that she be patient and allow me to say my own words, and then I said, “but I can’t speak for my friend. (Looking at him, I asked him) what do you prefer?”

He said, “the same thing, please patiently listen for me to finish my own words.”

I was so impressed with this little 45 second exchange. This waitress showed a respect, tolerance and understanding for difference that we often don’t see.

By bringing it out in the open the way I did (I hope I didn’t embarrass my friend!) we clearly advertised and educated.

And to me anyway, we got the by-product of a greater sense of permission to stutter away. Both of us seemed to stutter more freely for the remainder of our visit there. (Or maybe it was the alcohol. I’m not telling!)

What do you think?

Episode 79 features Jacquelyn Revere, 25, who hails from Los Angeles, CA. She is presently in NYC attending the The New School for Drama, and is in her last semester. She is getting her Master’s degree in Acting.

Jacquelyn has loved drama and acting from a young age. She stopped acting in high school though, thinking it wasn’t realistic. She switched her interest to entertainment law, where she interned with Johnnie Cochran (yes, O.J. Simpson’s lawyer!)

Her internship taught her that she did not want to be a lawyer! She changed her major to theater in her junior year of college, giving in to her heart’s passion.

Jacquelyn and I met one night through the Stutter Social Google hangout, then became Facebook friends, which led to this chat!

Jacquelyn discusses her speech therapy experiences – school based, which was not helpful and her experience with intensive therapy at the Hollins Institute.

Jacquelyn now works with a private therapist, Lee Caggiano, who is also the Director and co-founder of FRIENDS. Jacquelyn works on the mental aspects of stuttering, particularly shame.

I had no idea that Jacquelyn works with Lee, as I have been involved with FRIENDS and edit their newsletter, since 2008. What a small world! Jacquelyn found Lee through Taro Alexander, of  Our Time, of which I am also familiar!

Jacquelyn discusses challenges and opportunities, advertising, stress, stuttering while acting and pity parties!

This was a great conversation with a confident, courageous young woman whom we will see on stage one day. Feel free to comment or ask questions. Feedback is a gift.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

I had an interesting chat with my sister over dinner this past weekend. We are both on Facebook and she has been communicating with a couple of people I know through a stuttering forum.

Don’t ask how it started, but she has become friends with several people and was “added” to a forum by a member.

Some people might have a problem with a non-stutterer being a member of such a group. Personally, I think it’s a great idea that anyone interested in learning more about stuttering  be “allowed” to engage and participate in group discussions.

My sister mentioned that she has chatted quite a bit with one person, including chatting over the phone a few times. This woman who stutters has mentioned to my sister that the group has been a great source of support for her.

Many of the group members have talked her through various confidence issues and encouraged her to take chances with speaking that she previously never would.

My sister mentioned that when they have talked over the phone, this woman sounds great and that her stutter is very mild, saying, “it’s like yours, Pam.”

My sister also went on to say that she doesn’t really understand why then this person would seem so overly concerned about talking and taking chances publicly.

I reminded my sister that there is a huge amount of shame involved in stuttering and that’s why these stuttering forums are so popular and successful with people who stutter. If you look at some of the forums, it is not uncommon to see 50 or 60 responses to questions or posts by members.

Why? Because it is infinitely easier to express ourselves in writing, behind the relative safety of a computer screen, than it is to have real-time conversations over the phone, Skype or in-person. My sister said “no, that can’t be true. Look how much back and forth there is. Look how much this woman has been helped.”

I said, “yes, but it is all through writing. It is much safer to express our self in writing. We don’t stutter then. It becomes the safety net for the huge amount of shame that a lot of people who stutter still deal with.”

My sister just looked at me and said, “I never thought of that. That makes sense. Wow, you’re probably right.”

What do you think? Do you think online stuttering groups or forums become a safety net for some people, a way to not have to talk?

Episode 78 features Fianna Peppers, 27 years old, who hails from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Fianna currently works in a Bank of America call center, something that she never thought she would be able to do because of her stuttering!

Fianna describes herself as a master of word substitution. She has been doing that for over 25 years. She blocks quite a bit as well.

We talk about the huge role that shame plays in the lives of people that stutter. Fianna shares that as a kid, she was made fun of a lot. She relates a recent incident where a co-worker made fun of and mimicked her stuttering.

Fianna and I met in the on-line Facebook stuttering group Stuttering Arena, which boasts over 900 members. She brainstorms frequently with group members and has talked with a few over the phone.

We also discuss acceptance, therapy experiences and feelings. At one point, Fianna gets emotionally choked up as she gets really honest about how much shame has gripped her. This is a jam-packed conversation that covers a lot of ground and a range of emotions.

We also discuss how tiring and draining it is to stutter – it is physically and emotionally exhausting to constantly switch words!

Kudos to Fianna for sharing and being so honest. Please feel free to leave comments or just let Fianna know how well she did. Remember, feedback is a gift!

Credit for the music used in today’s episode goes to ccMixter.

An interesting article appears in today’s Business Management Daily about a worker who stutters who is hoping to get a promotion at her job.

She is told by her supervisor that the new manager would be brought in from another department.

When the worker asks why, she is told, “we know you work well with the other typists. They know about your stutering problem. But this is for a manager position. What about the communica­tion skills?”

She is further told, “We simply wouldn’t be doing you a favor by promoting you into a job you couldn’t handle.”

Couldn’t handle? I stutter and speak publicly in my job every day! To managers, communications specialists, teachers, administrators.

Read the full article here. There is some brief discussion on the American’s With Disability Act (ADA.) What do you think? Is this for real, or as friend Burt suggests, written as a parody?

My friend Devayan from India made me smile when he asked if I would be able to meet up with him and his brother when they arrive to New York this weekend.

It seems Devayan’s older brother has not been around too much stuttering, other than his brother’s, so Devayan thought it would be a good idea if he met me. As he put it, then his brother would be exposed to some good, confident stuttering.

That made me laugh when we discussed it over Skype this past weekend. We were chatting about Devayan’s pending move from Mumbai, India, to New York, USA. He had lots of questions, including how cold is it here, where could he find some inexpensive pots and pans, and does the local grocery store sell good chicken and eggs?

During our conversation, Devayan had several very good stuttering moments! It seems excitement and stress increases his stuttering, just like it does for most of us. (I had been under the impression that Indians who stutter don’t get stressed! Only kidding!)

So when he asked if I could meet them on Sunday for coffee before his brother returns home, I smiled and laughed. Devayan considers my stuttering to be of the good and confident type.

It struck me how great it was that we were able to have this conversation about stuttering – him telling me mine is confident and me telling him that he had some “great stutters.”

It also made me ask myself: “what is confident stuttering?” And it made me think he is well en route to becoming a good future speech therapist!

Confident stuttering is natural and open, staying with the block or repetition, making eye contact and smiling during the stuttering moments. I will be the first to admit that I don’t always do this, but I strive to anyway!

Maybe your definition is different! What do you think? How do you define “good confident stuttering?”

P.S. Devayan arrives in New York this weekend, and I am confident that we will both be cold and stutter well when we finally meet in person!

Episode 77  features Lotte Klene, who is 28 years old and hails from Rotterdam, The Netherlands. Lotte’s native language is Dutch and throughout our conversation, it is clear that Lotte is more fluent in Dutch than English.

Luckily, we have a translator available to help us! Early in to our conversation, we hear Lotte ask her boyfriend Jeroen to translate for her. Later in the conversation, I ask Jeroen to introduce himself and we chat a bit.

Jeroen Vuijk works for the local government in Rotterdam, and gives us a great perspective of what it’s like to date a woman who stutters.

Lotte talks about what it’s like to stutter in The Netherlands and how its perceived. We talk about therapy, shame, negative reactions, acceptance, and being able to communicate freely and confidently. Lotte shares that her mother also stutters and how stuttering is normal in her family.

Lotte loves to speak and be socially involved. We talk about the Facebook group Stuttering Arena and how helpful it has been for her to connect with other people who stutter. We also discuss Lotte’s involvement with The Netherlands stuttering association and the European League of Stuttering Associations (ELSA.)

Feel free to leave comments for Lotte or Jeroen! They both did a great job, especially Jeroen for his translation. Remember, feedback is a gift.

Music used in this episode is credited to ccMixter.

It still surprises me when someone tries to finish my words for me. Since I am so open about stuttering and mostly everyone who knows me knows I stutter, I guess I believe that people should not do that.

But it appears to almost be instinctual on some people’s part. Maybe it really does boil down to people just wanting to be helpful.

I saw my niece the other day, for the first time in a while in person. We stay in touch via Facebook and texting, but that’s not the same of course.

We arranged to meet somewhere on Christmas Eve. I had some items to pass along to her. We only chatted for a few minutes.

In that brief few minutes, I got stuck on a word and my niece filled it in for me, quickly. I hate when people do that, but I didn’t say anything. I hadn’t seen her in a while. Maybe she forgot I stutter! And I didn’t want to embarrass her by saying anything, because it happened within seconds.

But it still surprised me! That she did it, how I felt about it, and that I didn’t say anything, that I just let it pass.

Someone else supplied a word for me earlier this week at work as well. It was very casual, in passing, I don’t even remember who it was. But still it struck me. I was surprised that it happened again.

Are people really trying to help out when they fill in a word for us? Or do they feel so awkward with the stuttered moment that they feel they must say the word in order to keep the conversation flowing forward?


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© Pamela A Mertz and Make Room For The Stuttering, 2009 - 2026. Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material without express and written permission from this blog’s author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Excerpts and links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Pamela A Mertz and Make Room For The Stuttering with appropriate and specific direction to the original content. Same protection applies to the podcasts linked to this blog, "Women Who Stutter: Our Stories" and "He Stutters: She Asks Him." Please give credit to owner/author Pamela A Mertz 2026.
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